Wednesday, May 20, 2009

"Agora" and Hypatia - Hollywood Strikes Again


Hollywood Hokum - Again

It looks like some pseudo historical myths about the history of science are about to get a new shot in the arm, thanks to the new movie Agora by Chilean director Alejandro Amenabar. Now normally I'd be delighted that someone was making a film set in the Fifth Century (at least, one that wasn't another fantasy about "King Arthur" anyway). After all, it's not like there's a shortage of remarkable stories to tell from that turbulent and interesting time. And normally I'd be even more delighted that they are actually bothering to make it look like the Fifth Century, rather than assuming because it's set in the Roman Empire everyone needs to be wearing togas, forward combed haircuts and lorica segmentata. And I would be especially delighted that they are not only doing both these things but also casting the delightful Rachel Weisz in the lead role, since she's an excellent actress and, let's face it, pretty cute.

So why am I not delighted? Because Amenabar has chosen to write and direct a film about the philosopher Hypatia and perpetuate some hoary Enlightenment myths by turning it into a morality tale about science vs fundamentalism.

As an atheist, I'm clearly no fan of fundamentalism - even the 1500 year old variety (though modern manifestations tend to be the ones to watch out for). And as an amateur historian of science I'm more than happy with the idea of a film that gets across the idea that, yes, there was a tradition of scientific thinking before Newton and Galileo. But Amenabar has taken the (actually, fascinating) story of what was going on in Alexandria in Hypatia's time and turned it into a cartoon, distorting history in the process. From the press release timed to coincide with the film's screening at Cannes this week:

Played by Oscar-winning British actress Weisz, Hypatia is persecuted in the film for her science that challenges the Christians' faith, as much as for her status as an influential woman.
From bloody clashes to public stonings and massacres, the city descends into inter-religious strife, and the victorious Christians turn their back on the rich scientific legacy of antiquity, defended by Hypatia.


So we are being served up the idea that Hypatia was persecuted and, I'll assume, killed because "her science ... challenges the Christians' faith". And why have a movie with one historical myth in it when you can have two:

"Agora" opens with the destruction of the second library of Alexandria by the Christians and Jews -- after the first, famous library which was destroyed by Julius Caesar.

At least he's done his homework enough to realise that the decline of the Great Library was a long, slow deterioration and not a single catastrophic event. But he still clings to Gibbon's myth that a Christian mob was somehow responsible. And rather niftily invents a "second library of Alexandria" so he can do so. Of course, there's an inevitable moral to all this:

The director also said he saw the film worked as a parable on the crisis of Western civilisation.

"Let's say the Roman Empire is the United States nowadays, and Alexandria is what Europe means now -- the old civilisation, the old cultural background.


"And the empire is in crisis, which affects all the provinces. We are talking about social crisis, economic of course, this year, and cultural.

"Something is not quite fitting in our society. We know that something is going to change -- we don't know exactly what or how, but we know that something is coming to an end."

Exactly how far or how closely he expects we can extend this analogy is unclear. If Europe is Alexandria and the US is Rome, who is Hypatia? And who are the murderous fundamentalists? I suspect the answer could be "Muslims". The LA Times article on the Cannes screening seemed to think so:

The film is at its most compelling when Amenabar shows the once-stable civilization of Alexandria being overwhelmed by fanaticism, perhaps because the bearded, black-robe clad Christian zealots who sack the library and take over the city bear an uncanny resemblance to the ayatollahs and Taliban of today.
(At Cannes: Alejandro Amenabar's provocative new historical thriller)

However far you want to take Amenabar's parable, the outlines are clear - Hypatia was a rationalist and a scientist, she was killed by fundamentalists who were threatened by knowledge and science and this ushered in a Dark Age.


Hypatia the Myth

Not that there is anything very new or original about this - Hypatia has long been pressed into service as a martyr for science by those with agendas that have nothing to do with the accurate presentation of history. As Maria Dzielska has detailed in her study of Hypatia in history and myth,Hypatia of Alexandria,virtually every age since her death that has heard her story has appropriated it and forced it to serve some polemical purpose.

Ask who Hypatia was and you will probably be told "She was that beautiful young pagan philosopher who was torn to pieces by monks (or, more generally, by Christians) in Alexandria in 415". This pat answer would be based not on ancient sources, but on a mass of belletristic and historical literature .... Most of these works represent Hypatia as an innocent victim of the fanaticism of nascent Christianity, and her murder as marking the banishment of freedom of inquiry along with the Greek gods.
(Dzielska, p. 1)

If you had asked me at the age of 15 that's certainly what I would have told you, since I had heard of Hypatia largely thanks to astronomer Carl Sagan's TV series and book Cosmos. I still have a soft spot both for Sagan and Cosmos, since - as with a lot of young people of the time - it awakened my love not only of science, but a humanist tradition of science and a historical perspective on the subject that made it far more accessible to me than dry formulae. But popularisations of any subject can create erroneous impressions even when the writer is very sure of his material. And while Sagan was usually on very solid ground with his science, his history could be distinctly shaky. Especially when he had a barrow or two to push.

The final chapter of the book of Cosmos is the one where Sagan pushes a few barrows. Generally, his aims are admirable - he notes the fragility of life and of civilisation, makes some calm and quietly sober condemnations of nuclear proliferation - highly relevant and sensible in the depths of Cold War 1980 - and makes a rational and humanistic plea for the maintenance of a long term view on the Earth, the environment and our intellectual heritage. In the process he tells the story of Hypatia as a cautionary parable; a tale that illustrates how fragile civilisation is and how easily it can fall to the powers of ignorance and irrationality.

After describing the glories of the Great Library of Alexandria, he introduces Hypatia as its "last scientist". He then notes that the Roman Empire was in crisis in her time and that "slavery had sapped ancient civilisation of its vitality"; which is an odd comment since the ancient world had always been based on slavery, making it hard to see why this institution would suddenly begin to "sap" it of "vitality" in the Fifth Century. He then he gets to the crux of his story:

Cyril, the Archbishop of Alexandria, despised her because of her close friendship with the Roman governor, and because she was a symbol of learning and science, which were largely identified by the early Church with paganism. In great personal danger she continued to teach and publish, until, in the year 415, on her way to work she was set upon by a fanatical mob of Cyril's parishioners. They dragged her from her chariot, tore off her clothes, and, armed with abalone shells, flayed her flesh from her bones. Her remains were burned, her works obliterated, her name forgotten. Cyril was made a saint.
(Sagan, p. 366)

I gather I was not the only impressionable reader who found this parable made a great impression. One reader of Dzielska's study, which debunks the version Sagan propagates, wrote a breathless review on Amazon.com that declared:

Hypatia was first brought to my attention by Carl Sagan in his television series Cosmos. She has often been represented as a pillar of wisdom in an age of growing dogma. Unlike with Socrates we know much less about her life and teachings. She is remembered precisely as a martyr who was sacrificed rather than executed by a literalist Christian mob inspired by "St" Cyril, apparently as she was regarded as a threat to Christendom and theology by certain regio-political figures.

That actually makes you wonder if they had read Dzielska's book at all.

While Sagan is the best known propagator of the idea that Hypatia was a martyr for science, he was simply following a venerable polemical tradition that has its origin in Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire:

A rumor was spread among the Christians, that the daughter of Theon was the only obstacle to the reconciliation of the prefect and the archbishop; and that obstacle was speedily removed. On a fatal day, in the holy season of Lent, Hypatia was torn from her chariot, stripped naked, dragged to the church, and inhumanly butchered by the hands of Peter the Reader and a troop of savage and merciless fanatics: her flesh was scraped from her bones with sharp oyster-shells and her quivering limbs were delivered to the flames.

Like Gibbon, Sagan links the story of the murder of Hypatia with the idea that the Great Library of Alexandria was torched by another Christian mob. In fact, Sagan presents the two events as though they were subsequent, stating "[the Library's] last remnants were destroyed soon after Hypatia's death" (p. 366) and that "when the mob came .... to burn the Library down there was nobody to stop them." (p. 365)

In the hands of Sagan and others both the story of Hypatia's murder and the Library's destruction are a cautionary tale of what can happen if we let down our guards and allow mobs of fanatics to destroy the champions and repositories of reason.

The Great Library and its Myths

This is certainly a powerful parable. Unfortunately, it doesn't correspond very closely with actual history. To begin with, the actual Great Library of Alexandria no longer existed in Hypatia's time. Precisely when and how it had been destroyed is unclear, though a fire in Alexandria caused by Julius Caesar's troops in 48 BC is the most likely main culprit. More likely this and/or other fires were part of a long process of decline and degradation of the collection. Given that we know so little about it, the Great Library has long been a focus of some highly imaginative fantasies. The idea that it contained 500,000 books is often repeated uncritically by many modern writers, even though comparison with the size other ancient libraries and estimates of the size of the building needed to house such a collection makes this highly unlikely. It is rather more likely that it was less than a tenth of this number, though that would still make it the largest library in the ancient world by a wide margin.

The idea that the Great Library was still in existence in Hypatia's time and that it was, like her, destroyed by a Christian mob has been popularised by Gibbon, who never let history get in the way of a good swipe at Christianity. But what Gibbon was talking about was the temple known as the Serapeum, which was not the Great Library at all. It seems the Serapeum had contained a library at some point and was possibly a "daughter library" of the former Great Library. But the problem with Gibbon's version is that no account of the destruction of the Serapeum by the Bishop Theophilus in AD 391 makes any mention of a library or any books, only the destruction of pagan idols and cult objects:

At the solicitation of Theophilus, Bishop of Alexandria, the Emperor issued an order at this time for the demolition of the heathen temples in that city; commanding also that it should be put in execution under the direction of Theophilus. Seizing this opportunity, Theophilus exerted himself to the utmost to expose the pagan mysteries to contempt. And to begin with, he caused the Mithreum to be cleaned out, and exhibited to public view the tokens of its bloody mysteries. Then he destroyed the Serapeum, and the bloody rites of the Mithreum he publicly caricatured; the Serapeum also he showed full of extravagant superstitions, and he had the phalli of Priapus carried through the midst of the forum. Thus this disturbance having been terminated, the governor of Alexandria, and the commander-in-chief of the troops in Egypt, assisted Theophilus in demolishing the heathen temples.
(Socrates Scholasticus, Historia Ecclesiastica, Bk V)

Even hostile, anti-Christian accounts of this event, like that of Eunapius of Sardis (who witnessed the demolition), do not mention any library or books being destroyed. And Ammianus Marcellinus, who visited Alexandria before 391, describes the Serapeum and mentions that it had once housed a library, indicating that by the time of its destruction it no longer did so.

Still, the myth of a Christian mob destroying the "Great Library of Alexandria" is too juicy for some to resist, so this myth is still a mainstay for arguments that "Christianity caused the Dark Ages" despite the fact it is without foundation. And it seems Amenabar couldn't resist it either - thus a scene early in the movie features an anxious Hypatia scrambling to rescue precious scrolls before a screaming mob bearing crosses bursts through a barred door to destroy what he's dubbed "the second library of Alexandria" (presumably he means the Serapeum). This seems to be at the beginning of the movie, apparently setting the stage for the conflicts between science and religion that will end in Hypatia's murder. Sagan, on the other hand, put the destruction of the Library after her murder. In fact, it seems no such destruction happened either in her lifetime or after it and the idea it did is simply part of the parable.

The Hypatia of History

The real Hypatia was the daughter of Theon, who was famous for his edition of Euclid's Elements and his commentaries on Ptolemy, Euclid and Aratus. Her birth year is often given as AD 370, but Maria Dzielska argues this is 15-20 years too late and suggests AD 350 to be more accurate. That would make her 65 when she was killed and therefore someone who should perhaps be played by Helen Mirren rather than Rachel Weisz. But that would make the movie much harder to sell at the box office.

She grew up to become a renowned scholar in her own right. She seems to have assisted her father in his edition of Euclid and an edition of Ptolemy's Almagest, as well writing commentaries on the Arithmetica of Diophantus and the Conics of Apollonius. Like most natural philosophers of her time, she embraced the neo-Platonic ideas of Plotinus and so her teaching and ideas appealed to a broad range of people - pagans, Christians and Jews. There is some suggestion that Amenabar's film depicts her as an atheist, or at least as wholly irreligious, which is highly unlikely. Neo-Platonism embraced the idea of a perfect, ultimate source called "the One" or "the Good", which was, by Hypatia's time, fully identified with a monotheistic God in most respects.

She was admired by many and at least one of her most ardent students was the Bishop Synesius, who addressed several letters to her, calling her "mother, sister, teacher, and withal benefactress, and whatsoever is honoured in name and deed", saying she is "my most revered teacher" and describing her as she "who legitimately presides over the mysteries of philosophy" (R. H. Charles, The Letters of Synesius of Cyrene). The Christian chronicler quoted above, Socrates Scholasticus, also wrote of her admiringly:

There was a woman at Alexandria named Hypatia, daughter of the philosopher Theon, who made such attainments in literature and science, as to far surpass all the philosophers of her own time. Having succeeded to the school of Plato and Plotinus, she explained the principles of philosophy to her auditors, many of whom came from a distance to receive her instructions. On account of the self-possession and ease of manner, which she had acquired in consequence of the cultivation of her mind, she not infrequently appeared in public in presence of the magistrates. Neither did she feel abashed in coming to an assembly of men. For all men on account of her extraordinary dignity and virtue admired her the more.
(Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, VII.15)

So if she was admired so widely and admired and respected by learned Christians, how did she come to die at the hands of a Christian mob? And, more importantly, did it have anything to do with her learning or love of science?

The answer lies in the politics of early Fifth Century Alexandria and the way that the power of Christian bishops was beginning to encroach on that of civil authorities in this period. The Patriarch of Alexandria, Cyril, had been a protégé of his uncle Theophilus and succeeded him to the bishopric in AD 412. Theophilus had already made the position of Bishop of Alexandria a powerful one and Cyril continued his policy of expanding the influence of the office, increasingly encroaching on the powers and privilages of the Prefect of the City. The Prefect at the time was another Christian, Orestes, who had taken up his post not long before Cyril became bishop.

Orestes and Cyril soon came into conflict over Cyril's hard-line actions against smaller Christian factions like the Novatians and his violence against Alexandria's large Jewish community. After a pogrom against Jewish synagogues led by Cyril, Orestes complained to the Emperor but was over-ruled. Tensions between the supporters of the Bishop and those of the Prefect then began to run high in a city that was known for mob rule and vicious street violence.

Hypatia, whether by chance or choice, found herself in the middle of this power struggle between two Christian factions. She was well-known to Orestes (and probably to Cyril as well) as a prominent member of the civic life of the city and was perceived by Cyril's faction to not only be a political ally of Orestes but an obstacle to any reconciliation between the two men. The tensions spilled over when a group of monks from the remote monasteries of the desert - men known for their fanatical zeal and not renowned for their political sophistication - came into the city in force to support Cyril and began a riot that resulted in Orestes' entourage being pelted with rocks, with one stone hitting the Prefect in the head. Not one to stand for such insults, Orestes had the monk in question arrested and tortured to death.

Cyril tried to exploit the torture and execution of the monk, making out that it was effectively a martyrdom by Orestes. This time, however, his appeals to the Imperial authorities were rejected. Angered, Cyril's followers (with or without his knowledge) took revenge by seizing Hypatia in the street and torturing her to death in vengeance.

The incident was generally regarded with horror and disgust by Christians, with Socrates Scholasticus making his feelings about it quite clear:

[Hypatia] fell a victim to the political jealousy which at that time prevailed. For as she had frequent interviews with Orestes, it was calumniously reported among the Christian populace, that it was she who prevented Orestes from being reconciled to the bishop. Some of them therefore, hurried away by a fierce and bigoted zeal, whose ringleader was a reader named Peter, waylaid her returning home, and dragging her from her carriage, they took her to the church called Caesareum, where they completely stripped her, and then murdered her with tiles [oyster shells]. After tearing her body in pieces, they took her mangled limbs to a place called Cinaron, and there burnt them. This affair brought not the least opprobrium, not only upon Cyril, but also upon the whole Alexandrian church. And surely nothing can be farther from the spirit of Christianity than the allowance of massacres, fights, and transactions of that sort.
(Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, VII.15)

What is notable in all this is that nowhere in any of this is her science or learning mentioned, expect as the basis for the respect which she was accorded by pagans and Christians alike. Socrates Scholasticus finishes describing her achievements and the esteem with which she was held and then goes on to say "Yet even she fell a victim to the political jealousy which at that time prevailed". In other words, despite her learning and position, she fell victim to politics. There is no evidence at all that her murder had anything to do with her learning. The idea that she was some kind of martyr to science is absurd.

History vs the Myths. And Movies.

Unfortunately for those who cling to the "conflict thesis" of science and religion perpetually at odds, the history of science actually has very few genuine martyrs at the hands of religious bigots. The fact that a mystic and kook like Giordano Bruno gets dressed up as a free-thinking scientist shows how thin on the ground such martyrs are, though usually those who like to invoke these martyrs can fall back on citing "scientists burned by the Medieval Inquistion", despite the fact this never actually happened. Most people know nothing about the Middle Ages, so this kind of vague hand-waving is usually pretty safe.

Unlike Giordano Bruno, Hypatia was a genuine scientist and, as a woman, was certainly remarkable for her time. But she was no martyr for science and science had absolutely zero to do with her murder. Exactly how much of the genuine, purely political background to her death Amenabar puts in his movie remains to be seen. It's hoped that, unlike Sagan and many others, the whole political background to the murder won't simply be ignored and her killing won't be painted as a purely anti-intellectual act of ignorant rage against her science and scholarship. But what is clear from his interviews and the film's pre-publicity is that he has chosen to frame the story in Gibbonian terms straight from the "conflict thesis" textbook - the destruction of the "Great Library", Hypatia victimised for her learning and her death as a grim harbinger of the beginning of the "Dark Ages".

And, as usual, bigots and anti-theistic zealots will ignore the evidence, the sources and rational analysis and believe Hollywood's appeal to their prejudices. It makes you wonder who the real enemies of reason actually are.

36 comments:

Anonymous said...

Educational and entertaining as always, Mr. O'Neill.

I only wish my own teachers could be
as insightful as you.

tenthmedieval said...

Elegantly put, indeed, and I shall probably wind up pointing a number of people at this post. I don't suppose you can do one refuting the "Inquisition burned scientists" idea too can you? :-) Meanwhile, you may be amused by this review of the film of Dan Brown's Angels and Demons which hits some of the same buttons...

Bjørn Are said...

Thanks!

Well put, and a great read!

I'll certainly point to this review from my blog!

Humphrey said...

The Hollywood treatment of history never ceases to amaze me. For instance 'The Patriot' had the British army burning the colonists alive in a church, an atrocity more akin to what was going on in WWII. In 'Braveheart' Mel Gibson's William Wallace gets into bed with Queen Isabella, despite the fact she would have been three years old at the time.

In one of my first lectures at St Andrews I was told that good old Mel Gibson was interviewed by a journalist who said 'don't you think Hollywood has a responsibility to make accurate historical movies, especially when this is how most of the general public comes into contact with history'.

Mel then made some comments about how 'no, there isn't really a responsibility there', Hollywood's responsibility is to make movies that people want to see.

The journalist wasn't satisfied with this and tried to push the point with some comments about how it was disrespectful to the past and historical figures to depict them inaccurately. At this point Mel exploded and said 'Look what does it really matter!, They're ALL FUCKING DEAD...OK!.'

Bout sums it up.

Don Viney said...

In 1997 I published a double review of Maria Dzielska's book and the monograph of Michael Deakin (republished in 2007 by Prometheus as Hypatia of Alexandria: Mathematician and Martyr). Mr. O'Neill, I only wish I had written your review: well done! History is interesting enough without the distortions that film makers introduce to pander to public taste. Your comments on the science / religion issue are especially welcome. (Don Viney, Prof. of Philosophy, Pittsburg State University, Pittsburg, Kansas)

Anonymous said...

Many thanks! This was very interesting.

Roger Pearse said...

An excellent post.

Cyril inherited his uncle's position as patriarch, and, effectively, as political head of Egypt in general and the Alexandrian mob in particular. He was generally above such crude methods anyway, preferring intrigue to violence (probably because he was so good at it).

There is in Orosius somewhere a note which we need to consider, tho: "... there exist in temples book chests which we ourselves have seen and when these temples were plundered these, we are told, were emptied by our own men in our own time."

I wonder if Synesius appears in the movie? Or the moment when one of Hypatia' pupils declared he was in love with her, and she promptly threw a used tampon at him and said "*That* is what you are in love with!".

But... let's rejoice at the popularisation of the period by the movie anyway.

Leslie said...

[I followed a link to this from a comment at Per Omnia Saecula.]

Being quite illiterate and kind of a moron, I found only one thing I disagreed with in your post...

"That would make her 65 when she was killed and therefore someone who should perhaps be played by Helen Mirren rather than Rachel Weisz. But that would make the movie much harder to sell at the box office."

Helen Mirren is amazing and I think the true story would be almost as awesome if she was playing the lead.

Other than that [even including that, as I thought it a very clever aside and am just a smart alec], a very interesting read. Good stuff.

Narukami said...

Excellent

Thanks

Cid, o Campeador said...

Greetings!

Extremely valuable information! Perhaps you could share it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbskP9utQ0M. These neo-pagans truly need some enlightenment. ;)

Loren said...

I think that a more reasonable comparison might be between Hypatia and 18th-cy. French chemist Antoine-Laurent Lavoisier.

He got guillotined by the French revolutionaries because he had been a tax collector for the former king, and possibly because one of the revolutionaries, Jean-Paul Marat, had a grudge against him. They weren't phlogistonists who were annoyed by his debunking of that hypothesis.

When Marat applied to the French Academy for membership some years before, Lavoisier turned him down, dismissing some of his scientific work as worthless. And Marat may not have forgotten that when he became a leader.

returnofthespacegods said...

What a refreshing read... that were pretty much my exact feelings when I found out about this movie: great that a good looking historical movie was coming out, but shame that it's being used for hackneyed propaganda... Seems like the real story would make a more interesting plot, with all the intersections of politics, sex and religion.

Also a bit annoying that every (modern) description of Hypatia has to stress how beautiful she was, as if being an erudite philosopher wasn't enough; although from the stills it looks like they haven't gone overboard on the hair and makeup, and Rachel Weisz looks like a fairly believable librarian.

Anonymous said...

Carl Sagan does not need ammendments. His works are masterpieces. Atheists do not really exist perse and at the end of the day everyone takes a position according to his (hidden)beliefs. Hypatia was murdered by the Christian mob of Alexandria and not by some aliens from outer space. Furthermore, the Greek civilization and scientific achievmnets were destroyed and buried by the Roman empire (Western and Eastern),especially after the time the Judeochristian Byzantine emperors understood how dangerous this civilization was for their master plan of turning humanity into a flok of terrorised and uneducated sheep for thousands of years. Big Brother of medieval humanity...

Tim O'Neill said...

Carl Sagan does not need ammendments. His works are masterpieces.

His works are very good. But not withour errors, especially when it comes to history. On the subject of Hypatia and the Great Library, his account is riddled with errors, as I detailed above.

Atheists do not really exist perse

Yes, actually, we do.

and at the end of the day everyone takes a position according to his (hidden)beliefs.

That is gibberish.

Hypatia was murdered by the Christian mob of Alexandria and not by some aliens from outer space.

Hypatia was murdered by the followers of one Christian leader for supporting a rival Christian leader. It was a political murder that had nothing to do with religion and less to do with science.

Furthermore, the Greek civilization and scientific achievmnets were destroyed and buried by the Roman empire (Western and Eastern),especially after the time the Judeochristian Byzantine emperors understood how dangerous this civilization was for their master plan of turning humanity into a flok of terrorised and uneducated sheep for thousands of years. Big Brother of medieval humanity...

And that is nonsense.

PS Learn to spell.

Anonymous said...

Looking for historic accuracy from Hollywood in the first place is as naive and as misguided as the exercise above which attempts to mask the core message by examining the miniature of a historical event. The pertinent facts are that Roman Christianity has always been hostile to women including in the area of education and its long history is ample proof of this. The Romanising of religion did bring on a dark age of ignorance that continues to this day to insist that children are taught what to think rather than how to think. Given that the historical distortions in this movie, typical of Hollywood, do contain what is an idea that is essentially true (the anti-female, anti-learning, anti-human nature of Roman Christianity) then at least it’s a reflection of a longer reality. If it stimulates people to investigate from the perspective of a longer and less smug overview than in this review that might be a good thing.

Meanwhile Roman Christianities splinter groups are building museums in the US that have dinosaurs and humans sharing the same territory. There is a long line of a historical thread from there back to the murder of Hypatia.

Tim O'Neill said...

Anonymous said...

Looking for historic accuracy from Hollywood in the first place is as naive and as misguided as the exercise above which attempts to mask the core message by examining the miniature of a historical event.

Luckily for me, because I'm neither naive nor misguided, I don't expect Hollywood to get its history right at all. The fact remains, however, that most people get their history from popular culture like this movie and when Hollywood does get its history wrong it's useful to point this out.

The pertinent facts are that Roman Christianity has always been hostile to women including in the area of education and its long history is ample proof of this.

Then it would be more useful for Hollywood (or, in this case, a European film maker) to actually depict an accurate example of this, not make one up.

The Romanising of religion did bring on a dark age of ignorance

That, however, is complete bullshit. The "dark age of ignorance" that began in the Fifth Century was due to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Christianity had zero to do with it.

... that continues to this day to insist that children are taught what to think rather than how to think.

Any ignorance that Christianity is propagating today has no connection to the historical events of Hypatia's time. In her time Christianity was in the process of rejecting an anti-intellectual stance and adopting the position of Clement of Alexandria and Augustine of Hippo that valued all learning as coming from God, regardless of whether it came from Christian or pagan thinkers. That tradition was what brought Europe out of that "dark age of ignorance".

Given that the historical distortions in this movie, typical of Hollywood, do contain what is an idea that is essentially true (the anti-female, anti-learning, anti-human nature of Roman Christianity) then at least it’s a reflection of a longer reality.

Nonsense. That cluster of over-simplifications shows that it certainly hasn't stimulated you to investigate anything at all.

If it stimulates people to investigate from the perspective of a longer and less smug overview than in this review that might be a good thing.

See above. It seems this distorted story has simply confirmed some of your pseudo-historical ideas about these subjects.

Meanwhile Roman Christianities splinter groups are building museums in the US that have dinosaurs and humans sharing the same territory. There is a long line of a historical thread from there back to the murder of Hypatia.

How can anything fundies are doing in the US have any connection to Hypatia's murder if that murder had nothing to do with religion? You are making no sense.

Stanley Guenter said...

Tim,

I just came across your site looking for reviews of O'Donnell's "The Ruin of the Roman Empire" and have to say I am quite impressed with your site and reviews. Excellent information!

I am an archaeologist and finishin up my dissertation at SMU in Dallas and like you an atheist who finds Hollywood's continual portrayal of the church, especially the medieval church, as populated all but entirely by perverts and power-hungry philistines to be quite reprehensible. No institution could have arisen and maintained its position for nearly two millenia that was so completely bereft of any truth or decency.

So I have quite enjoyed your ability to maintain yourself as an atheist while still being able to recognize the anti-church bias in so much of modern media and academia. That said, I think you yourself overstep a bit. There are two comments on this page that I would take issue with. In the conclusion to your article you state: "But she was no martyr for science and science had absolutely zero to do with her murder." and in your reply to Anonymous above you state " The "dark age of ignorance" that began in the Fifth Century was due to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Christianity had zero to do with it."

I think you over-generalize here. Christianity was anything but a unified body at this time (heck, at any time!) and to say that Christianity had "zero" to do with the onset of the "Dark Ages" in science and learning is over-stretching. Doubting Thomas isn't held up in a favorable light in the Gospels; Jesus is made to say that those who do not doubt and do not ask for evidence before belief are blessed. According to traditional Christian belief no one will be condemned for believing without being given evidence to support that belief. However, condemnation follows for those who do not believe, even if they do not believe the evidence is sufficient to validate the belief. Yes, it is true that there were quite a number of intellectual Christians who pursued reason and science as a means to find God, but let's be honest - these were a minority. The vast majority of Christians had little use for such niceties.

Which brings me back to Hypatia. You state unequivocally that her murder had nothing to do with science. I don't think you can make that claim as we simply have far too little evidence, especially when you consider that it was a mob that murdered her. I think you would agree that the members of this mob did not likely share in the intellectual abilities and mindset of Cyril or Socrates Scholasticus. The lower classes, who almost certainly made up the bulk of the mob that murdered Hypatia, have traditionally not had such an appreciation for learning, especially when that learning comes from a different tradition than the one they hold holy. I can easily see how quite a number of this mob might have considered pagan-derived science as scarcely different from paganism itself and that this may have been the source of her opposition to their man, Cyril. It should be noted as well that Socrates Scholasticus interpretation of her death as due to politics and not religion would be an interpretation that his own beliefs would favor, while he would have good reason to downplay any religious motives he may have been aware of, given that this would place in conflict his religion and love for his fellow Christians, as well as his respect for this woman and her learning. Similar conflicts of interest are common today with scientifically-minded Christians often trying to distance themselves from Creationists and IDers, to the point of having them deny that the Creationists and IDers are actually basing their scientific beliefs on the Scriptures they share in common.

The bottom line is that as with most ancient history, we simply don't have a lot of hard facts. While the movie Agora is simply following a lot of unsubstantiated claims, I think we should be hesitant to make too many certain statements ourself in the light of this paucity of evidence.

Again, thanks for the site and the food for thought. Cheers!

Tim O'Neill said...

Stanley Guenter said...

... So I have quite enjoyed your ability to maintain yourself as an atheist while still being able to recognize the anti-church bias in so much of modern media and academia.

Thanks.


I think you over-generalize here. Christianity was anything but a unified body at this time (heck, at any time!) and to say that Christianity had "zero" to do with the onset of the "Dark Ages" in science and learning is over-stretching.


The Dark Ages are a western European phenomenon, whereas Christianity was as strong, or even stronger, in the east as well. Anyone wanting to argue that Christianity was somehow even partly responsible for the Dark Ages needs to explain, therefore, why they happened in the west and not in the even more Christianised east also. In the east the Classical intellectual tradition continued much as it always had. Christian scholars continued to study at the academies of Constantinople and Alexandria, continued to read Homer and produce commentaries on Aristotle and preserved the learning that later, via the Arabs, revived learning in the west after the Dark Ages.

The difference between the east and the west was the fact that the Empire collapsed catastrophically in the west and survived in the east. That was what caused the collapse of western learning, not Christianity.

Doubting Thomas isn't held up in a favorable light in the Gospels; Jesus is made to say that those who do not doubt and do not ask for evidence before belief are blessed. According to traditional Christian belief no one will be condemned for believing without being given evidence to support that belief. However, condemnation follows for those who do not believe, even if they do not believe the evidence is sufficient to validate the belief. Yes, it is true that there were quite a number of intellectual Christians who pursued reason and science as a means to find God, but let's be honest - these were a minority. The vast majority of Christians had little use for such niceties.

Those who pursued reason and science had always formed a tiny minority, so nothing changed there. Yes, Christianity had an anti-intellectual tradition, as expressed by several early Church Fathers. But, as I explained in my review of Freeman's book, that strand of Christianity lost the debate. In both east and west by the Fifth Century the attitude of Christianity to learning and science was that of Clement of Alexandria and Augustine - "pagan" learning was like the "gold of the Egyptians", to be taken and used by the faithful, not rejected. The hiatus in the west was caused by the near total collapse of civilisation. Once the effects of that collapse had declined, western Christians went in search of the learning they had lost precisely because of this tradition of reason and inquiry.

Which brings me back to Hypatia. You state unequivocally that her murder had nothing to do with science. I don't think you can make that claim as we simply have far too little evidence, especially when you consider that it was a mob that murdered her.

Sorry, but we have sufficient evidence to know what that crowd's motive was: revenge for the torture to death of a monk who supported Cyril. We can't simply assume some other or additional motive, based on no evidence, just because we want to.

Tim O'Neill said...

Part II

Similar conflicts of interest are common today with scientifically-minded Christians often trying to distance themselves from Creationists and IDers, to the point of having them deny that the Creationists and IDers are actually basing their scientific beliefs on the Scriptures they share in common.

That's projecting modern conflicts onto the past without any supporting evidence. You can't simply assume that this kind of conflict was involved with Hypatia's death unless there is some evidence that it was. There isn't. We do have evidence of what caused her death - civic politics. A historian sticks to the evidence and doesn't indulge in wishful projection.

The bottom line is that as with most ancient history, we simply don't have a lot of hard facts.

We have enough hard facts to see a motive for her murder - -politics. Inventing other motives without evidence is not history, it's polemical fantasy. And to be avoided.

Again, thanks for the site and the food for thought. Cheers!

You're welcome.

heich1 said...

First Socrates Scholasticus was not the only commentater on Hypatia.There was was another comentater called John of Nikiu who said that Hypatia used Satanic
means to influence Orestes and that is why she was killed.
Also will you explain there were no significant mathematicians or scientists in the Byzantine Empire
(Eastern Roman Empire) even though it lasted more than 1000 years after Hypatia's murder.

Tim O'Neill said...

First Socrates Scholasticus was not the only commentater on Hypatia.There was was another comentater called John of Nikiu who said that Hypatia used Satanic
means to influence Orestes and that is why she was killed.


John of Nikiu's lurid account dates to centuries after the fact and is not reflected in the sources that were either contemporary or near-contemporary. Sorry, but you can't ignore the sources that are close to the event and then just decide to accept one written centuries later - that's absurd.

Also will you explain there were no significant mathematicians or scientists in the Byzantine Empire
(Eastern Roman Empire) even though it lasted more than 1000 years after Hypatia's murder.


And that is garbage. With a few exceptions, Roman mathematics and science had been declining steadily in sophistication and output from at least the First Century onwards. But a tradition of commentaries and elaboration on Greek science continued, especially amongst Neo-Platontic thinkers. Hypatia was part of that tradition and it continued for centuries in the academies of Alexandria and Constantinople after her death.

John Philoponus's commentaries on Aristotelian physics, Dioscorides's herbal (De Materia Medica) and commentaries on ptolomeic geography and astronomy are amongst the fruits of this tradition. Puerbach and Regiomontanus's Epitome of the Almagest exercised a strong influence on Nicolaus Copernicus. And it was the scholars of the period after Hypatia who preserved and passed on the texts of the Greek scientists to the Arab world and so ensured they found their way back to Europe in the Twelfth Century.

Stop trying to cling to myths and go educate yourself about the real history of science. It's much more rich and interesting than the cartoon version you seem to be trying to maintain.

heich1 said...

Were any of the Byzantine Empire
scientists equal in importance to Menelaus, Ptolemy Claudius, Diophantus, and Pappus? The last two anyhow were after the first century? What was the reason they were not? The difference was the power of Christianity.

Tim O'Neill said...

Were any of the Byzantine Empire
scientists equal in importance to Menelaus, Ptolemy Claudius, Diophantus, and Pappus?


Yes

The last two anyhow were after the first century?

And they were about the only such scientists in that period. Yet at that point Christianity was a tiny, marginalised and persecuted sect. So what was "holding back" science then, because compared to the scientific "dark ages" of the Second to Fourth Century, the Byzantine period was a riot of activity.

The difference was the power of Christianity.

So you keep trying to assert. Despite the fact that from the later First Century to the end of the Fourth Century you can barely come up with more than a handful of names of scientists of any worth. Yet you can't attribute that to Christianity.

Give up. Your thesis makes no sense.

heich1 said...

I am sorry I am bothering you again. I am distingishing between scientists and mathematicians who were able to do original work, i.e. making a new discovery that was unknown before and those who wrote commentaries, i.e. reported what others had done before. Therefore I will repeat the question, where there any scientists and mathematicans during the Byzantine Period who did original work and if there were
would please give their names. Two
such people over three centuries is better than none over ten.

Tim O'Neill said...

I am sorry I am bothering you again. I am distingishing between scientists and mathematicians who were able to do original work, i.e. making a new discovery that was unknown before and those who wrote commentaries, i.e. reported what others had done before.

So am I. John Philoponus' critiques of Aristotle were highly significant and represented substantial and influential new work. Impetus theory, which was to be highly influential on later Arabic and European physcists, derived from Philoponus' analysis and correction of some of Aristotle's assumptions, for example. And many other assumptions made by Aristotle and by neo-Platonic thinkers were questioned and adjusted by Byzantine scholars in the same way.

In other words, the rate of such new work continued more or less as it had been going for several centuries before Christianity became dominant. Nothing changed. That's why this "conflict thesis" of some kind of war between Christianity and science has been rejected by modern historians of science. Christianity did not stifle science at all. That is a Nineteenth Century myth.

Mogi said...

I came on your discussion by chance and I'd like to thank you all for sharing such a detailed knowledge and opinions on the topic.

Mogi Vicentini

Judith Weingarten said...

Sorry to be so late to the discussion but Tenthmedieval just sent me the link in a comment on my post today, Hypatia Hits the Big Screen. A pity I hadn't seen it earlier.

On the whole, I agree with you but I think Stanley's point is excellent: there is a sharp difference between what the rabble thinks (and I must include those fast-maddened monk in the 'rabble') and their leaders. You will admit, I hope, that Cyril was hotheaded and intolerant, though, as is shown by his 'canonization' of the monk who threw a stone at the governor, Orestes.
Similarly, I would not ignore the testimony of John, Bishop of Nikui (that Hypatia was a sorcerer), just because he's writing 7th C. It represents another strand of Christian thought.
Thanks for an excellent post.

Tim O'Neill said...

On the whole, I agree with you but I think Stanley's point is excellent: there is a sharp difference between what the rabble thinks (and I must include those fast-maddened monk in the 'rabble') and their leaders.

What motives the rabble may have had is in the realm of baseless speculation, not history. Perhaps some, all or a few of them hated Hypatia because of her learning or her paganism. Or perhaps none did. In the absence of a time machine and some kind of mind-reading device, we can never know. Assuming that they did so and that therefore the myth about Hypatia's death has some basis isn't my idea of how to do history, sorry.

Similarly, I would not ignore the testimony of John, Bishop of Nikui (that Hypatia was a sorcerer), just because he's writing 7th C. It represents another strand of Christian thought.

It represents the prejudices and ignorance of a much later strand of Christian thought and it doesn't square at all with accounts that were far closer to the events. So I don't "ignore" it, but I do dismiss its usefulness as a source. At best it tells us how the myth of Hypatia began to develop and not much more.

Judith Weingarten said...

I wouldn't call it 'baseless speculation', Tim. The key part of that 'rabble' (the monks from Nitria) had form. They had been armed by Cyril's predecessor Theophilus, as his 'shock troops' in earlier battles against pagans and heretics. Socrates S specifically says that they were 'transported with ardent zeal' when they attacked Orestes and 'hurried away by a fierce and bigoted zeal' when they murdered Hypatia.

The accusation of 'sorcery' against one who inquires into the origin of things is hardly new in the 7th C. Start with Lucius Apuleius' defence against some similar charges in the 2nd C. As he said then, "it is a fairly common misunderstanding by which the uneducated accuse philosophers." So, perhaps not part of Hypatia's myth, but another strand of thought, as I suggested.

Tim O'Neill said...

I wouldn't call it 'baseless speculation', Tim. The key part of that 'rabble' (the monks from Nitria) had form. They had been armed by Cyril's predecessor Theophilus, as his 'shock troops' in earlier battles against pagans and heretics. Socrates S specifically says that they were 'transported with ardent zeal' when they attacked Orestes and 'hurried away by a fierce and bigoted zeal' when they murdered Hypatia.

They were zealous in furthering the aims of the bishop. All the evidence indicates that the bishop’s aims against Orestes were political, since Orestes was a fellow Christian. And all the evidence indicates that the attack on Hypatia was in the context of the political tussle with Orestes. So their “form” doesn’t give us any reason to think that their motives here were anti-pagan or anti-science. The evidence indicates that their motives were anti-Orestes.

The accusation of 'sorcery' against one who inquires into the origin of things is hardly new in the 7th C.

Did I say it was? The fact remains that there is no hint of this motive in the earlier sources about her death. So it seems to simply reflect how a Seventh Century writer would have seen a (to him) bizarre and exotic figure – a scholar who was not only a pagan but a woman. We simply can’t read his later prejudices back into the earlier sources, which show no sign of such attitudes.

TonyTheProf said...

I still remember coming across Dzielska's Hypatia of Alexandria a few years ago and being blown away by the detailed painstaking work she did piecing together the sources and presenting a nuanced picture of the whole scene in Alexandria at the time.

But myths - such as the Sagan version - tend to persist. Look at other myths which persist despite the best efforts of historians (1) the idea that the ancients (and sometimes up to and including the sailors with Columbus) believed the earth was flat (2) the idea that the witch craze was an attack by Christianity against an underground pagan movement (3) the exchange between TH Huxley and Bishop Wilberforce(4) the idea that the naturalist on the Beagle was Charles Darwin.

Films are very bad at this. I still remember Mel Gibson's atrocious film where he had the Romans speek Latin, whereas if he'd done any homework, he would have known they would be speaking Greek. And on the subject, Dan Brown's latest book introduces the letter H into Greek. Which is I suppose fractionaly better than Digital Fortress which has a 12 ton Enigma Machine!

Even contemporary stuff is wrong. Watching "A Beatiful Mind", one would be forgiven for thinking John Nash had visual hallucinations; he didn't - they were just auditory.

Judith Weingarten said...

the bishop’s aims against Orestes were political, since Orestes was a fellow Christian

But Socrates S. tells us that the monks accused Orestes of being an idolater (i.e. pagan) and hurled other insults whereupon Ammonius threw the stone. It's quite possible that Cyril though he was playing politics, but the monks had their own issues.

The accusation of 'sorcery' against one who inquires into the origin of things is hardly new in the 7th C.

Did I say it was?


Well, yes, implicitly: It represents the prejudices and ignorance of a much later strand of Christian thought ...

... and it doesn't square at all with accounts that were far closer to the events.

I think you take too literal a view of what Socrates S said, certainly if you read the monks' "zeal" --whether "ardent" or "fierce and bigoted" -- as purely political (rather as Joe the Plumber might be said to be zealous). Anyway, Socrates S., too, certainly had his own agenda, and what he says and doesn't say is rather too much for a blog comment.

Thanks for this interesting post ... and comments.

Tim O'Neill said...

But Socrates S. tells us that the monks accused Orestes of being an idolater (i.e. pagan) and hurled other insults whereupon Ammonius threw the stone.

And since we know that Orestes wasn't a pagan then we know that this is all this epiphet was - an insult.

It's quite possible that Cyril though he was playing politics, but the monks had their own issues.

Sorry, but you’re reading that into the evidence. The monks’ issue was that Orestes was obstructing their guy in his attempt at flexing some more political muscle and challenging the prefect for political dominance. That’s all the evidence indicates.

The accusation of 'sorcery' against one who inquires into the origin of things is hardly new in the 7th C.

Did I say it was?

Well, yes, implicitly: It represents the prejudices and ignorance of a much later strand of Christian thought ...


Then you’ve misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn’t claiming that this accusation was unknown before the Seventh Century. I was simply pointing out that a Seventh Century Christian would never have met a pagan, let alone a female one who was also a scholar. Such an exotic and remote figure would have been a bogeyman for such a writer, whereas she would not be (and clearly wasn’t) for the contemporary writers. So John of Nikui’s projection of dark and evil aspects onto Hypatia makes sense. But the fact that there is no hint of anything similar in the earlier sources indicates that it reflects his own fears and ignorance, which are to be expected given when he was writing, and not some historical accusation against Hypatia.

I think you take too literal a view of what Socrates S said, certainly if you read the monks' "zeal" --whether "ardent" or "fierce and bigoted" -- as purely political (rather as Joe the Plumber might be said to be zealous).

Sorry, but reading what the sources actually say rather than projecting what I’d like them to mean is what proper historians do. You’re projecting ideas that simply aren’t there onto evidence. However much you want Hypatia to have been a martyr for paganism/science/learning/whatever, that isn’t in the evidence. End of story.

Judith Weingarten said...

End of story? I rather doubt it.

For one thing, I wonder how you know from our meagre sources not only what John of Nikui was thinking when he wrote his words, but what the maddened monks were not thinking (only politics! nothing else) when they murdered Hypatia.

For another thing, what is your evidence for claiming that I "want Hypatia to have been a martyr for paganism/science/learning/whatever"? What in my blog text supports that statement?

End of my comments. We've carried on long enough :-)

Javier Chacón said...

Well, if you really watch the movie, the truth is that two leader of Christian groups fight is shown. The fact of science is not as much a cause of her death as Cirilo jealosy.

In fact, what Cirilo hates about Hypatia is that she has influences in Orestes, and the final explanation he uses to convince the rest to kill Hypatia was "a man can't be influenced by any women".

By the way, Hypatia discovers something new that no one knows, and she is killed before she can tell anyone what she discovered, but a slave and the killers, that use it just as a "final joke", as they were going to kill her anyway. So, the way Christians avoid science evolution is just a bad luck thing. They didn't like her to refuse God and love science, of course, but it's not the motive of murderer, that is really that fight between Christians, a politic thing.

I guess you could watch it anyway, and make up your own idea instead of just reading others talking about it. And by the way, it's not Hollywood, I know you are just using it as a "bad movies" label, but it's an Spanish movie (and I'm Spanish, so I apologize for my English).

Cid, o Campeador said...

Hi Tim,

I suggest you to return to the IMDb message board of Agora, because some idiot just posted there this piece of pseudo-historical nonsense: "It was high time someone put christianism in its place. Loved it.
We had more than a thousand years of scientific blackout due to christianism, this is outrageous. So much knowledge gone to waste."

WTF?! It's really amazing how many people believe that it was the rise of Christianity that caused the so-called "Dark Ages" and propagate this nonsense as historical fact. What's the matter with History teachers these days?