tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post1109696936130032685..comments2023-05-02T23:19:12.706+10:00Comments on Armarium Magnum: God's Battalions: The Case for the Crusades by Rodney StarkTim O'Neillhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-5990908772564637172017-05-31T08:01:57.944+10:002017-05-31T08:01:57.944+10:00@ Wulf Nesthead
Thanks for the kind words. As y...@ Wulf Nesthead <br /><br />Thanks for the kind words. As you may have noticed though, this blog hasn't been updated for a couple of years now. These days I am focusing my attention on a particular type of bad history and fringe historical theory: that used by 'New Atheists'. That's not to say that the kind of warped history by Christians that we see in Stark's book (and inTim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-55649266662555509112017-05-31T07:29:35.324+10:002017-05-31T07:29:35.324+10:00A superb analysis, Tim, thank you! I'm sorry ...A superb analysis, Tim, thank you! I'm sorry about all the semi-literates trying to sound intelligent in the comments. I guess it must come with the territory; I don't blame you for sometimes losing your cool. 😁. More off-topic (and forgive the momentary fawning), this is one of the most outstanding blogs I've ever had the pleasure of visiting. Please keep up the good work: those Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12525213343278389508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-13144371259711625052015-10-16T15:24:40.688+11:002015-10-16T15:24:40.688+11:00"I believe, the act was one of reprisal rathe..."I believe, the act was one of reprisal rather than one motivated by wholly defensive concerns"<br /><br />That's not that argument that Stark tries to make.Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-28020935329097732282015-10-16T15:08:17.921+11:002015-10-16T15:08:17.921+11:00This is a simple reply regarding memory. The idea ...This is a simple reply regarding memory. The idea of Muslim encroachment sparking the initial crusades has at least some merit, though, I believe, the act was one of reprisal rather than one motivated by wholly defensive concerns. It is true that hundreds of years passed between the incidents in question, but I would suggest that even the passage of a significant amount of time is not enough to James L. Caldwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04974171377363150248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-58184759719986132992015-04-09T08:18:21.964+10:002015-04-09T08:18:21.964+10:00Yeah, it was the same with Starks book, you don...Yeah, it was the same with Starks book, you don't have to read the sober reviews, it's plenty enough to read some of the positive reviews to become very, very, very sceptical..<br /><br />PS: I got Starks book for free, I knew it was bad, but not so bad. Reminded me of 'Mohammed and Charlemagne revisited'. Not Pirennes theory, but Emmet Scotts book.zildetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07876030768098431344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-61929604158748273432015-04-09T06:38:23.766+10:002015-04-09T06:38:23.766+10:00"What do you think about Steve Weidenkopf'...<i>"What do you think about Steve Weidenkopf's 'The Glory of the Crusades' </i><br /><br />Never heard of it before. But having Googled it now, it looks awful.Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-79783654448970460022015-04-09T06:27:45.013+10:002015-04-09T06:27:45.013+10:00Thanks for your review! I was some 30 pages into t...Thanks for your review! I was some 30 pages into the book when I threw it in the wall. Well, not literally, it was an e-book..<br /><br />What do you think about Steve Weidenkopf's 'The Glory of the Crusades'zildetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07876030768098431344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-53779113190330877382015-02-26T10:55:08.232+11:002015-02-26T10:55:08.232+11:00Not sure you make your case.
Why not? Is there s...<i>Not sure you make your case.</i><br /><br />Why not? Is there something I haven't addressed? Something I've got wrong? Details please.<br /><br /><i>Stark's work is a short overview. So it will be lacking in some respects.</i><br /><br />It's a 275 page book. He couldn't make his case in that space? And the problem is not that his argument is somehow lacking in detail.Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-80853689287801383352015-02-26T09:42:19.097+11:002015-02-26T09:42:19.097+11:00Interesting review. Not sure you make your case....Interesting review. Not sure you make your case.<br /><br />Stark's work is a short overview. So it will be lacking in some respects.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07554758562718290119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-59854123844520745782014-12-23T08:21:04.989+11:002014-12-23T08:21:04.989+11:00"But your high modality language increases my...<i>"But your high modality language increases my scepticism about your bona fides. "</i><br /><br />That makes absolutely no sense.<br /><br /><i>" You seem to rely a lot on hyperbole and emphasis to discredit Stark. "</i><br /><br />Garbage. I back up everything I say with reasoned argument and evidence.<br /><br /><i>"It is largely a hortatory rather than an analyticalTim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-46634988746397045572014-12-22T23:26:23.178+11:002014-12-22T23:26:23.178+11:00Having just purchased the book I was interested to...Having just purchased the book I was interested tonight in reading a critical perspective of it before I launched into it. You have certainly provided that.<br /><br />But your high modality language increases my scepticism about your bona fides. You seem to rely a lot on hyperbole and emphasis to discredit Stark. <br /><br />It is largely a hortatory rather than an analytical critique of the Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02239546619560431201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-78480478500823483672014-03-10T16:56:16.504+11:002014-03-10T16:56:16.504+11:00Hey Tim, what do you think of the Crusades? Were t...Hey Tim, what do you think of the Crusades? Were they a justified war by the Christians?<br /><br />And why do you think the Muslims lost all their science and progress in the Middle Ages? What happened to them?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07632108128131876967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-15041186512334611582013-12-08T21:15:19.537+11:002013-12-08T21:15:19.537+11:00I read this book, and I fear I may have believed m...I read this book, and I fear I may have believed more of it then I should. The major reason was for this I think was because I have heard a lot of the material before from other sources. <br /><br />I may be wrong, but I do think that some Islamic learning may have been Greek/Byzantine in Origin, probably as a result of the annexation of Christian territory by Islamic powers. Perhaps there may Medievalgirlhttp://medievalreader.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-33195700317429781262012-01-16T22:33:58.824+11:002012-01-16T22:33:58.824+11:00:( I didn't think my comment had appeared on t...:( I didn't think my comment had appeared on this site but I'm even more sad Tim doesn't feel like answering any of the questions I've asked - the history_lover rant. I really would like a reply to atleast some of my questions :Chistory_lovernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-7248233903276363712011-03-28T08:10:24.731+11:002011-03-28T08:10:24.731+11:00Nevertheless, Stark's book is a really enjoyab...Nevertheless, Stark's book is a really enjoyable read. Sure, there's obvious errors,but the central thesis has nothing to do with heavy cavalry, etc. Rather, Stark suggests that Islamic fiefdoms are always bickering with each other, which leads to their downfall, as in the present day cases of Iraq, Palestine, and Libya. Because of their focus on correct interpretation of the Quran, Larsen E Whipsnadehttp://hoserjoe@telus.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-73332691240223178402011-03-26T09:46:33.804+11:002011-03-26T09:46:33.804+11:00It seems like Stark has become a hack. I have one...It seems like Stark has become a hack. I have one of his other recent books (though I'm at work right now and can't consult the actual title) which is titled something like Discovering God.<br /><br />He relies heavily on a term he calls (though I don't know if he coined it)"divine accomodation", which basically means that God reveals himself to mankind according to their Tommykeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14751182125861177379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-45123872399126660872010-11-30T04:10:08.998+11:002010-11-30T04:10:08.998+11:00This was a really quality post. In theory I’d like...This was a really quality post. In theory I’d like to write like this also – taking time and real effort to make a good article… but what can I say… I procrastinate alot and never seem to get anything done… Regards, Masonweb hosting reviewshttp://webhostingtutors.com/category/webhosting-reviews/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-25412783784344548172010-10-28T09:15:43.830+11:002010-10-28T09:15:43.830+11:00Hi Tim.
You mention at the end of the third parag...Hi Tim.<br /><br />You mention at the end of the third paragraph that the Romans "[a] bizarre cluster of irrational superstitions that made up Roman religion."<br /><br />Do you know of any good articles on the net about their beliefs and superstitions or a good book if not?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15201011565932139508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-64609284284088679332010-10-13T07:24:29.903+11:002010-10-13T07:24:29.903+11:00Thanks Tim, I found this fascinating.
I have been...Thanks Tim, I found this fascinating.<br /><br />I have been troubled by some of Rodney Stark's errors for a while. In For the Glory of God, he is mistaken about the use of heavy cavalry being unique to the middle ages, Alexander with his companion cavalry being an early example that contradicts that proposition. (Online friends who are into mediaeval and ancient warfare corrected me on that)Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-87225040422515599292010-09-10T01:01:58.617+10:002010-09-10T01:01:58.617+10:00I am a middle school teacher in NC and came across...I am a middle school teacher in NC and came across your site while researching the Crusades for my history class this year. I just wanted to thank you for the great information and articles.<br /><br />We would love it if you could write a couple articles for us, link to us to help us spread trusted resources to other teachers, or even if Tweet or "Like Us" on Facebook. Anything is muchUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01150419679402747733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-78407666448103699322010-09-04T18:02:16.147+10:002010-09-04T18:02:16.147+10:00I think it's pretty clear they did.
All I was...<i>I think it's pretty clear they did.</i><br /><br />All I was trying to say is that after those wars, Muslims could be easily cast as enemies by polemicists, and perhaps Islamic control over former Christian lands would be pointed to as evidence of this. <br /><br />I've read only a little about apocalyptic writings, but from my understanding, they seem to suggest more and more over Brian Shapirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09260038965020343601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-23876944944278699292010-09-04T15:14:35.811+10:002010-09-04T15:14:35.811+10:00But what I'm trying to suggest is that Muslim ...<i>But what I'm trying to suggest is that Muslim wars with Christian powers affected Christian how Christians saw Muslims. </i><br /><br />I think it's pretty clear they did.<br /><br /><i>Why was the Muslim invasion of the Holy Land such an earth shattering event to Christians?</i><br /><br />I think a better question would be why did it suddenly become a big deal for western Christians Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-38908670743094437632010-09-04T13:52:43.405+10:002010-09-04T13:52:43.405+10:00I agree with you that the mass movement was sparke...I agree with you that the mass movement was sparked by the encroachment on Holy Places.<br /><br />Like I said, there was no imminent threat of attack on all of Europe -- as you said, expansion of Muslim lands happened over several hundreds of years by different actors.<br /><br />I don't have any illusion that Europeans felt that because Moors invaded Iberia and Seljuks in the Byzantine Brian Shapirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09260038965020343601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-87222087213440126392010-09-04T12:26:53.696+10:002010-09-04T12:26:53.696+10:00But from the picture you create, one would also th...<i>But from the picture you create, one would also think that Muslim encroachment wasn't even anywhere in European consciousness.</i><br /><br />Show me some evidence that there was some sense of "Muslim encroachment" on Europe and I'll consider it. Because Stark came up with zero.<br /><br />You're projecting modern ideas onto a past age and seeing several hundreds years Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-72472952392381724502010-09-04T10:13:45.445+10:002010-09-04T10:13:45.445+10:00From your description, I agree that the book has a...From your description, I agree that the book has a really distorted account. I also agree with you when you say "the primary motivation of Crusaders seems to have been religious piety".<br /><br />But from the picture you create, one would also think that Muslim encroachment wasn't even anywhere in European consciousness. That seems impossible to believe, given the expansion of the Brian Shapirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09260038965020343601noreply@blogger.com