tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post8999540686269602425..comments2023-05-02T23:19:12.706+10:00Comments on Armarium Magnum: The Swerve: How the World Became Modern by Stephen GreenblattTim O'Neillhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-84062101506272569892017-11-09T03:06:00.723+11:002017-11-09T03:06:00.723+11:00Hi, Tim. I finally got around to reading The Swerv...Hi, Tim. I finally got around to reading The Swerve. Perhaps you'd find my review interesting. (It's about as harsh as yours.) http://thewrongmonkey.blogspot.com/2017/11/stephen-greenblatts-swerve-is-not-as.htmlSteven Bollingerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03215202747829300924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-64763794239971386672014-03-21T07:01:21.824+11:002014-03-21T07:01:21.824+11:00Great poST> i linked to your summary of the myt...Great poST> i linked to your summary of the myth of the 'nasty' Middle Ages at my blog. Abu Daoudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18399746942963002389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-58710466127622201292013-12-16T12:04:57.251+11:002013-12-16T12:04:57.251+11:00Say Tim, what do you say about the accuracy of all...Say Tim, what do you say about the accuracy of all of this, with certain parts bolded:<br /><br /><i> Presumably, if the fall-from-innocence idea retarded scientific and technological progress in the late Middle Ages, it must have done so throughout the Middle Ages. That nearly reverses the reality. <b>Scientific progress, it is true, was slowed by the prevailing ideology — not by Christianity, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-87035623406993453102013-11-08T05:54:45.668+11:002013-11-08T05:54:45.668+11:00So, was all of the technological and scientific pr...So, was all of the technological and scientific progress in the Middle Ages proven to have never happened?<br /><br />And was it proven that the works of preceding Non-Christians such as Aristotle "didn't" play a role in scientific progress being "slowed down"?<br /><br />From previous comments, one can get the impression that both of those happened.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-33882272286544710842013-10-10T16:24:33.776+11:002013-10-10T16:24:33.776+11:00you say that the Church is not opressive at all
...<i>you say that the Church is not opressive at all </i><br /><br />I've never said anything remotely close to that.<br /><br /><i>Yes Bruno WAS burned for that "at all", because it posited that cince there could be more than one planet with intelligent beings they could also have "incarnations" and thus also a Pope... which went against the idea that there was just one Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-74942921833541518682013-10-10T15:48:55.403+11:002013-10-10T15:48:55.403+11:00Yeah right, you say that the Church is not opressi...Yeah right, you say that the Church is not opressive at all etc. etc. the middle ages were just blistering ith liberty and monks were the guardians of knowledge, right? Explain then the with hunts, the countless people burned at the stake. and Yes Bruno WAS burned for that "at all", because it posited that cince there could be more than one planet with intelligent beings they could Nemo Staremhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434519196769758523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-69834598064774471372013-10-09T18:31:09.368+11:002013-10-09T18:31:09.368+11:00infinite stars and planets just like our own and t...<i>infinite stars and planets just like our own and that they may contain life or even intelligent life, going way beyond even Heliocentrism and perhaps the most advanced hipothesis about the universe ever to his day</i><br /><br />The idea of a multiplicity of worlds and that they may be inhabited was not a reason Bruno was burned at all. Nor was it original to him - he got that from Nicholas Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-8335916926752368692013-10-09T17:59:53.719+11:002013-10-09T17:59:53.719+11:00Giordano Bruno was burned alive for suggesting the...Giordano Bruno was burned alive for suggesting there as infinite stars and planets just like our own and that they may contain life or even intelligent life, going way beyond even Heliocentrism and perhaps the most advanced hipothesis about the universe ever to his day; to say what he wrote was "kooky hermetic nonsense" and thus his BURNING ALIVE by the church by the SAME prosecutor Nemo Staremhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12434519196769758523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-39916926033320570092013-09-19T19:36:52.051+10:002013-09-19T19:36:52.051+10:00I very much enjoyed this blog and the discussion f...I very much enjoyed this blog and the discussion following it. I found my way here via a series of links, after I pointed out some simple factual inaccuracies in Greenblatt's review of Whedon's <i>Much Ado About Nothing</i>. Frankly, his ignorance as to why an Aragonese prince might be visiting Messina made me discount what else he had to say about the play. You and others have Gillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-72830051462342301332013-06-19T13:16:32.435+10:002013-06-19T13:16:32.435+10:00Greenblatt is a professor of the Humanities and Sh...Greenblatt is a professor of the Humanities and Shakespeare at Harvard. But he's also now a commercial writer, with agents and everything, after the huge success of his Shakespeare bio (which is very good). The dilemma he faces is that the area he specializes in is not commercial in the US book market. "The Swerve" is a transparent attempt to try to dumb down the early Renaissance ABhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536547131562840293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-42341887616392639302013-06-08T11:32:58.851+10:002013-06-08T11:32:58.851+10:00I would ask, what new religions/philosophies/schoo...<i>I would ask, what new religions/philosophies/schools of thought emerged during that period of the 5th-15th century?</i><br /><br />I can give you two examples from many:<br /><br />(i) Nominalism - Greek philosophy was heavily based on the idea of "forms" as a solution to the metaphysical Problem of Universals. According to Plato, we call a bed a "bed" because it is the Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-1455893446069925212013-06-08T07:24:23.883+10:002013-06-08T07:24:23.883+10:00Tim,
Your points are well-taken again. I would a...Tim, <br /><br />Your points are well-taken again. I would ask, what new religions/philosophies/schools of thought emerged during that period of the 5th-15th century? One can't get by on saying "lots". <br /><br />Also, do you have a recommendation for reading as an introduction to medieval history? Browsing through your book reviews, I saw that you gave <i>God's Philosophers</iNathannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-72390297519820118132013-06-07T18:47:08.890+10:002013-06-07T18:47:08.890+10:00the fact that anyone born at the time was born as ...<i>the fact that anyone born at the time was born as a subject of the Church (as a hegemonic religious institution) and therefore did not have a choice but to participate in it</i><br /><br />That is imposing some very modern ideas on the past. The idea that religion is a matter of private, individual choice is a recent one. So to characterise a societal and communal way of seeing religion as &Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-85700405882324091222013-06-07T18:09:57.296+10:002013-06-07T18:09:57.296+10:00Tim,
Your response is well-taken; some cursory G...Tim, <br /><br />Your response is well-taken; some cursory Googling did not yield anything specific on artists or philosophers persecuted as heretics during the "Dark Ages". <br /><br />Just for the sake of it, however, I still think it is worthwhile to consider the Church as a structurally oppressive force in Medieval European society; that is to say, the Church's power was not Nathannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-71565742070979633302013-06-05T18:35:09.944+10:002013-06-05T18:35:09.944+10:00@Nathan.
I suppose I'd respond by asking you ...@Nathan.<br /><br />I suppose I'd respond by asking you to ponder why you use words like "stifled" and "backward" when noting there was a lot of religious medieval art or that medieval philosophy was often focused on religious ideas. You seem to be implying that if the Church hadn't "stifled" art, the artists would have much rather have been painting or Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-42911310986553081092013-06-05T03:28:15.799+10:002013-06-05T03:28:15.799+10:00Hi Tim,
I don't purport to be an expert on t...Hi Tim, <br /><br />I don't purport to be an expert on the subjects dealt with on this blog, but I have been reading many of your posts lately and I am interested to hear what you think of the Church's effect on the creative arts and humanities. You argue well against the Conflict Thesis, but I have not seen you address the idea that the Church stifled creative/philosophical liberty (as Nathannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-78270524078895486982013-03-19T09:23:26.286+11:002013-03-19T09:23:26.286+11:00A great smackdown of Whig history!
Just to note, ...A great smackdown of Whig history!<br /><br />Just to note, you misspell "medieval" in the fifth sentence of the 19th paragraph.WilhelmDurandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16200292728815175516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-63173609773092386762013-03-10T08:17:10.611+11:002013-03-10T08:17:10.611+11:00Thanks Stephen - glad to hear it was of use. Than...Thanks Stephen - glad to hear it was of use. Thanks for your book.Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-33894437164948143222013-03-10T04:41:30.883+11:002013-03-10T04:41:30.883+11:00Thank you for an excellent review, one which I sha...Thank you for an excellent review, one which I shall certainly recommend to my undergraduates. --Stephen Harris (of Grigsby & Harris, mentioned above)Harris_Massachusettshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05846082984878114192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-51098103248544518372013-03-01T10:14:10.762+11:002013-03-01T10:14:10.762+11:00The problem with the Epicurean* critique of God (a...The problem with the Epicurean* critique of God (as expressed above by Alfred Morris) is that it's conceivable that even a benevolent God might permit human beings to do evil, perhaps because depriving human beings of the free will to do evil would be a greater evil, or perhaps would permit a greater evil, or some other reason. <br /><br />*I understand that the argument may not actually haveStevo Darklynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-3326442176500138172013-02-28T18:47:24.689+11:002013-02-28T18:47:24.689+11:00@Alfred Morris
Ummm, okay. What's that got t...@Alfred Morris<br /><br />Ummm, okay. What's that got to do with my review? You do realise I'm an atheist don't you? Apparently not.Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-32684972168227669962013-02-28T18:25:59.902+11:002013-02-28T18:25:59.902+11:00Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
The...Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br /><br />Then he is not omnipotent.<br /><br />Is he able, but not willing?<br /><br />Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing?<br /><br />Then whence cometh evil?<br /><br />Is he neither able nor willing?<br /><br />Then why call him God?”<br /><br />Faith is the belief in something you know damn well is a lie. God is EVIL! Alfred Morrishttp://www.cluonline.com/master_of_divinity_degree_online_mdiv.htmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-52368014225211604622013-02-25T06:54:43.682+11:002013-02-25T06:54:43.682+11:00@ Chris
Redondi's theory suffers from the obv...@ Chris<br /><br />Redondi's theory suffers from the obvious objection - if the "real" problem with Galileo's thesis was atomism undermining the doctrine of Transubstantiation, why the hell didn't the Inquisition just come out and <b>say</b> that? Why go to all the effort of arguing that heliocentrism was contrary to both reason and scripture and therefore heretical when Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-72306058332751395302013-02-25T02:48:44.480+11:002013-02-25T02:48:44.480+11:00Tim,
Can you say more or point out a source for t...Tim,<br /><br />Can you say more or point out a source for the debunking of Redondi's theory? I have his book but haven't yet read it, and now I'm wondering if it would be a waste of time to do so. Thanks for any information.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6774463840913796679.post-25728483697081000472013-02-19T06:00:45.660+11:002013-02-19T06:00:45.660+11:00Those following comments on this review should not...Those following comments on this review should note the "Addenda" I've just added at its end, with links to some other very critical reviews and responses to Greenblatt's book.Tim O'Neillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00292944444808847980noreply@blogger.com